manipulation shouldn't be so easy

Gandhi had more balls than those children throwing rocks and such.

It doesn't take much to throw a rock, it take a lot of guts to take a stand for your beliefs without using violence.

Remember: a police infiltrator never suggested *NOT* using violence.

This movement has to learn to not be so easily manipulated by both the cops and the Black Bloc.

JP
KillYourTV.com

Fuck the JP
Fuck you
Fuck your tv
Viva el bloque negro!

you might be right - if you watch all these radicalised protests carefully, they focus on global economic agreements and on the european union - and what about inner-american agreements?
i talked to a cia veteran some weeks ago, and as we watched protestors on tv he said that all protests against global regulations or against a strong european union are in line with the interests of usa and cia.

especially in italy people should be familiar with the strategy of tension - undermining a movement with provocateurs in order to direct it towards the own hidden goals. and then having the media coverage wanted. as for global and european union summits that is protest overall and less mentioning the things discussed at the summit. all that in order to weaken the position of eu and other countries and to strenghten the global leadership of the united states.

sadly that makes it difficult for the legitimate protest against global economic policy - who wants to support the biggest power in the world with his or her protest?

You couldn't be more naive JP. But you'll learn in time (I hope). At appropriate points I have worked with police to have non violent demos. Of course that it is what they want. They want to be able to ignore you. Italy is not a colony, so don't tire me with your Ghandi analogy, 'cause it don't fit.

how about some basic solidarity you fucking arsehole. By your comments you put yourself on the same side as the cops

It's been a hell these week around genova. They stopped everyone. Not easy to gain the city: No shengen treaty, nor constitution or passport were of use... just planned and brutal oppression.

They have reached their winning point. Now there is fresh flesh to throw in the headline story.
It is a damned manipulation!!!!

And so called "black blockers" are just manipulated hooligans with lack of brain. If they were real "hardliners" they should have used guns, tanks, missiles and fucking handmade atomic bombs...

The same old story always... it is stupid to die to make them drink their champagne...

ceers

$$$$$$

fuck the police. i don't understnad that always people critisies so called violance. a man was killed threw the police - and we all know, that this can happen every day. it is reality in europe that every year thausends of people are killed threw fortress europe. it is reallity, that the police often shoot down people. and it is also reality, that both, zivil and uniformed police start provkation...
i think it is good to critisies so colled violance. and i think it is against the idea of proteste to smash small shops without message. we need diskussions on our struggle.

on 14th of july the german police shoot a women - she was killed by rasiced police.

Yup. "This movement has to learn to not be so easily manipulated by both the cops and the Black Bloc. " Exactly correct. It wasn't the Blac Blocs that shut down Seattle, and it was the Blac Blocs that took Quebec over the edge.

Go read some history of anarchism, and some philosophy of anarchism: organized peaceful protest is just as much an enemy of anarchists as is organized government.

Guess what, people - just because a group _says_ it serves your ends doesn't make it true.

The time may have come that when you see the black clad violence people arriving, you turn 180 degrees and start walking.

Political protest does not require violence. But violent people do seem to like a crowd to hide in. Maybe it's time to move the protest elsewhere when they arrive.

It takes two to tango...

You're right, JP.

Like someone said yesterday, it's not a problem of black bloc or not, but of machoism.

If you want to know about real anarchists, read the book "Demanding the Impossible" and you will find out that the vast majority of people who truly considered themselves anarchists were indeed nonviolent.

I reckon the violent types are state infiltrators, there to get our movement a bad name.

I am so happy that you folks have the opportunity to peacefully protest, for in other parts of the world, they have succesfully moved from protest to resistence. You may have the luxury of time on your side, so that you may go out with your puppets and banners, but every minute that goes by, another person dies as a victim of capitalist, imperialist exploitation. I would spit in your face of everyone who condemns those who know the brevity of the situation and have the courage to risk everything. Enjoy your middle-class consumerist lifestyles, because elsewhere, people are dying for it. Go to hell, the lot of you.

A//E
~Die a Martyr, Live an Example

la violenza e chi ha sparato? la polizia

Chi distorce la verita' e' un polizziotto, un codardo, non vuole credere alla verita' e la rihbalta.
JP tu sei un infiltrato codardo

la violenza e chi ha sparato? la polizia

Chi distorce la verita' e' un polizziotto, un codardo, non vuole credere alla verita' e la rihbalta.
JP tu sei un infiltrato codardo

grrr's comment is to the point.

Basically, there are no doubt people in the black block who think fighting the cops is so cool that they hardly need a reason for it. It's a macho attitude almost as bad as the macho attitude of the cops (in Gothenburg amd genoa). I think the blck block does not show respect for the rest of the demonstrators.

However, the BIG issue is that one man is now DEAD. Shot in the head at close range by police who then maybe ran him over with their car.

The state has declared WAR upon our movement. They kill us! Remember that at least in Gothenburg police fired 7 shots into the crowd!!!! Without firing warning shots!

Don't be a sectarian reductionist fool. I have worked with police to put Nazis with arms caches behind bars for a long time and to get the occasional parade permit. There is a time to work with police (e.g. parade permits for a gay pride parade) and a time to work against the police (e.g. the G8 summit). And if that isn't pure enough for you, you need a lesson in solidarity my friend.

To those who think that there would be coverage of our issues without some form of mayhem (not neccesarily violence), you are being naive. I have participated in rallies as large as the one in Genoa, that have recieved scant recognition. The funny thing is, The Drop the Debt movement needs the Black Block and the Black Block needs the drop the Debt movement. One draws attention and the other draws credibility. The sooner we realise that our movements are complimentary, the sooner we will start seeing larger victories.

ghandi's tactics only worked according to himself if the opponent respected the non-violence of the demonstrators. ordering bodybags and claiming anti-tank/aircraft missiles will be held on alert is definitely a breach of this respect.
Be aware that without these riots the media wasnt that interested in the demo's at all. we should be very carefull condemning the riots. What do you read about the ideas of the movement?? it is two lines maybe and than riot riot news. If it wasn't for the black bloc the media wouldn't be interested. Now they show up asking where the riots will be so they can have the first stories...

If you get the chance to speak to the media dont waste your chance by condemning the riots but use the attention to speak out your beliefs..
One Struggle One fight!!

I agree with those who oppose tactics of the violent bloc.

The violent block consists of violent portestors (black block and others), and some violent policemen.

Not all police is violent. They are innocent guys who find themselves attacked by masked hooligans. It is hard to react. They feel like they have not harmed anyone, yet they are being attacked very very violently.

What should they say? Please, throw a rock at me, because the g8 sucks??? I am sure quite a big number of them agrees with the ideology antiglob protesters. But we will have to wait a little until they find the courage to resist orders, or to quit working for the state.

-------------------------------------
Watch the Gandhi movie, read the autobiography, and you will see what are real balls and what is real revolution.

My struggle is against violence, wherever it may come from.

...is to form a militia of sorts. Kevlar helmets/body armor, small arms and training. Then when an agent p or a wuss like JP start their crap you can deal with them effectively. Concerning JP and the "peacenicks" give them their space ("quality time") with their inner child. Lets see the pigs fire into them.

As to agent P's you have cameras and with a little personel research one has every confidence they and their families can be reasoned with to find more positive "meaningful" career paths and forms of employment.

If one wages a war one should wage it to win...the capitalists are! Whatever you do don't let the bastards get you down.

In solidarity

Fuck JP.
En momentos en que hay un muerto es el momento de estar unidos, no debemos criticarnos ante la represion policial.
Personas como vos son la lacra que abandonan a sus amigos a la suerte de dios en medio de una represion.
Ghandi no logro nada. Y los grandes cambios de la humanidad siemrep fueron violentos y no poque nosotros querramos.
O estas en contra de Espartaco, la revolucion francesa, la independencia de USA, etc, etc.
Sin mas, fuck JP.

Non ci poteva essere pių facile arma per il potere che dare mano libera a questi idioti, il problema č che bisognerebbe riflettere un po' prima di agire...
Un'occasione persa per dimostrare la forza della nonviolenza

Our problem comes from withine, the Black Bloc aquires some negative media via their "destructiveness" and "Hooliganism", but these people are just another face of the Multi-faceted movement.

They may use a different means to accomplishe their ends.
But they are your Comrades, your Allies, your friends.
You can fight and bicker over tactics and beliefs, ideologies and ethics, but were all in it together, you may be fighting for dissimilar Utopias, but you're fighting a common enemy... INJUSTICE

So my Sisters and Brothers, UNITE, Flower Childeren, Reds, Greens, Blacks and Slighty tinged aquamarines with a hint of peach... Stand up be counted, RESIST!!!!!!!!!


And remember... If you're calously injured while peacefully protesting, the one that rescues you from the clutches of the brutal baton charge... may just be wearing Black!


Love others Rage

There is a lot of talk about Gandhi here. However, he and his movement are being defined by Richard Attenborough's film. In fact, Gandhian activists in India have routinely destroyed the property of those who oppress them - only they stand around and wait to be arrested, like the Ploughshares women who wrecked the BAe Hawk fighter destined for the East Timor killing fields. The laughing arsonists active in India have routinely burnt down the offices of Monsanto and other corporations (after clearing the people out). They laugh while the buildings which house their oppressor are set alight. To the moralists who use Gandhism as a critique of the Black Block, I say you need to do more research.

Also, we need to get the violence in perspective. What the Black Block is doing is nothing compared to the ritual unleashed by the G8 leaders. You can't compare what is happening in Genoa with the rape and murder in Chechnya by Vladimir Putin, the starvation of Iraqi children by Blair, the immense poverty, misery and disease created by IMF austerity programmes, the rampant pollution of our planet by the industrialised nations.

Get real! The movement will get nowhere if it worries about its image in the corporate media. Let's get it in perspective.

JP and friends make me want to cry. A Black Blocker did not MURDER a cop - a cop MURDERED a young anarchist. How can you defend the cops for even a second? Which side are you on? Please don't come to any demos that I go to, I wouldn't want you behind me in a march.